Tags
baby, Experience, free will, life, musings, Self-control, thoughts
We think of babies as innocent. I guess by that we mean that they are not responsible for their actions. Fair enough. Babies seem utterly selfish to me: they’re only interested in their own needs and cry if they are not fulfilled. They’re not interested in how they’re provided for, the cost, the time or energy invested. Of course, they can’t be expected to understand such things, so again, fair enough.
Parents, teachers and others, society, teach and nurture each baby; teach them right from wrong and the ways of the world. By this process, the baby grows to adulthood and is expected to take responsibility for his/her actions. We no longer regard him/her as innocent per se. He/she may be accused, brought to task and punished for transgression.
I don’t want to get embroiled in a nature versus nurture argument. A baby is not responsible for either his/her nature or his/her nurture. So once he/she grows to adulthood, what can he/she be reasonably asked to accept responsibility for? Behaviour is the result of nurture on nature. Who is responsible for behaviour? Why is an adult any more or less innocent than a baby?
oh now that is too big a topic to debate right now but i think once you are an adult you have to just pretend to know what you’re doing so means take the hit if you are wrong
Yes, I see what you mean. I think I’m not so much discussing knowing what you’re doing as being culpable for the decisions you take? Maybe!
yes .. exactly … MAYBE
This is a very interesting theme. I think babies grow up to be whatever they are. I’ve seen the biggest brat become humble in adulthood and a kid so well behaved turn into Atilla the Hun. Manners for me are what’s missing. They’re becoming extinct. Adults do need to take responsibility for their behavior but that doesn’t man they will.
I agree with you about manners. But that’s not really what I’m thinking about. I was trying to address the issue of culpability from the angle of how a person or their personality is made. Maybe I explained it badly.
No, I just read it differently. I always think babies mimic their elders but then again some of them grow up to be the opposite of them so, go figure.
In any event, I liked what you wrote.
Thanks Susannah.
If you’re up on brain research and the neuroplasticity of the brain, you’ll have the answer to your question. The brain of the baby is vastly different than of adolescent and the brain of the adolescent is VERY different the adult. That is BTW why teenagers get into so many accidents and need very loud music. To make matters worse, the brain of the senior is changing as we’ll, and not only in forgetfulness but in diminished censorship. Sooo the adult has a different brain and different awareness, hence he’s responsible.
Can the adult be responsible for the output, when he/she wasn’t responsible for the input? The brain, training, rearing and other environmental factors were all given (imposed) upon him/her.
Of course he can be responsible. What you are proposing (to take it to the extreme) is a society where every adult will be considered a child. You are also disregarding free choice, and the ability to distinguish between right and wrong. Inasmuch as I’m not discounding the points you’re making, and the validity of our genetic makeup and education, the fact is that the adult brain is capable of denying gratification more than that of a child, and that chidren born to the same family are often different from each other, even though they were raise by the same parents, and went to the same schools. The other issue has to do with the time of maturation. That’s a more complicated issue. ALL the factors that were imposed on the adult, went through a process of integration. Most of us, don’t behave exactly in the way our parents did, not in the way they instructed us. So unless one goes through severe brainwashing, there’s a sifting process, which is quite individual.
I think the source of free will is the root of this. I don’t doubt that my experience of it is much the same as yours: it feels as though I am making my decisions independently. But, logically, I don’t understand how that can be so. Every component of my decision making apparatus was given to me. That includes all the nurture and nature: brain, nervous system, genetics, teaching, parental guidance, environment, societal inputs, &c. So where does the independence come from? I don’t accept the “greater than the sum of its parts” argument. I think we’re in danger of confusing complexity and randomness with independence.
Let me say, I am not wholey convinced by my own argument. The feeling of independence is very hard to shake off. But I can’t ratify the simple logic of it with what I experience. For free will to exist, there must be another component.
There’s actually a lot of new research affirming your position ( you see i can argue both sides as well). Basically stating that “free will” is bogus. I forgot the name of book which was written by a notable scientist about that. My concern though is, that especially in a place like the U.S. where people don’t take responsibility anyway, and use their childhood trauma to justify everything, we run the danger of supplying more justification to the lack of accountability.
Yes, I can see lack of accountability as a risk. I argue that, even if people are not to blame for their actions, they must be held to account, with threat of punishment, else there is no deterent and we would have complete anarchy.
very good point, maybe they are not!
OK, thanks for that. So moving on, are our ideas of crime and punishment all bunk? Is it all just supposed to be deterent?
well if we look back over history, there is that strong possibility…
as for the present, i would rather see therapy programs, rehab programs, (etc.) set up for criminals rather than have them rot in jail and become more violent…